Re: Keen

[Kyo]

I will give examples: Please note that i will always have my own earth heart.

1) I have my earth heart. I then go and steal a water heart. I now have both an earth and water heart. I now go steal a fire heart giving me earth, fire and water elements that i can use freely. Now, if i go and steal lets say, a lightning heart, i have to choose to delete the element of either my fire or water heart in order to use the lightning heart. Suppose i choose my fire heart. So now, I have my own earth heart, a water heart, a new lightning heart and a fire heart that i now cannot use for elements. So I have four hearts, but can only two elements plus my own. The fire heart now acts as a regular heart.

2) If i had chosen to still use my fire and water, I would not be able to use lightning out of the lightning heart. If i ever then wanted to use lightning again, I would have to go out and get a new lightning heart.

3) Suppose I still have my earth heart, a fire and a water heart. I then kill someone that has a water heart and take it. I now have 1 earth heart, 1 fire heart and 2 water hearts. So if i separate the hearts from my body, i will have one fire beast and two water beasts that can use water.

4) If i only have my earth heart and then and go steal three more earth hearts, i could make three earth beasts that can each use the earth element.

Does that answer your question? cause i was a bit confused on what you were asking.

[Koga]

No no, you did basically answer my question. I was just a bit misunderstanding of what you meant. I thought you said that in order to get the third element, you would need to have two hearts of that same element. Like this:

-Earth Heart (Innate, First Element)
-Water Heart (Second Element)
-Fire Heart (Basically an Extra Heart)
-Second Fire Heart (Allows Third Element)

Thats what I thought you meant, like you needed two hearts of the same element to get that third element to be used.

Also, keep in mind that your Earth Heart could indeed get killed. Kakuzu's got nailed by a lightning blade, so thats quite a gray area. One could assume that if the Earth Heart was killed, you would lose the ability to use the Earth Grudge technique. Not really a problem since the canon leaves it a bit open ended, but just keep that in mind when deciding on which heart to put in dangerous situations.

[Uchiha Kumori]

Just a pointer, Earth Grudge Fear isn't earth. It doesn't have an element. It's a Kinjutsu.

[Kenshi]

That can be debated Keiteki...

[Uchiha Kumori]

Nope. It's canon.

Kakuzu's original heart was the Water Heart.

The Wind and Fire ones were destroyed by Naruto, and the Earth one was destroyed by Kakashi. It came out as a masked monster, only to die immediately afterwards. Kakuzu has shown the ability to use Mizu Bunshin, so he has the Water Heart.

If Earth Grudge Fear was doton, when Kakashi hit him with Raikiri, he shouldn't have been able to use Earth Grudge Fear. But he did.

[Koga]

Well, as far as I know, they never actually told us which heart was his original. If you can find some proof behind that, I wouldnt debate it. However, the technique has "Earth" in its name, and is listed as an Earth Elemental technique on LeafNinja, which means Im safe to assume its also listed as Earth in the official guidebook.

[Uchiha Kumori]

Well, his Earth Heart was destroyed, and yet he used it.

And I just checked with my own eyes, Jiongu doesn't have an elemental affinity.

[Koga]

Ah. >.>

Sorry, bad memory, apparently. >.>

Still, it is called EARTH Grudge Fear. Though I cant debate that it does say its elementless.

So I guess, technically, you wont always have to have an Earth Heart. That does eliminate that gray area.

[Kyo]

Hmm i always thought that Earth Grudge Fear was an earth based jutsu. So on this site is it?

But anyways, was there anything else you wanted to know Koga? Or is it ok?

[Kenshi]

The reason I don't like the jutsu because it hasn't really been explained and it's too iffy.

I for one think that the jutsu is Earth based, not because of the name, but because of the abilites that Kakuzu had. He was able to harden his body at will, and that would have to take nonetheless but an elemental affinity. He was never able to electrify his body or heat his body up with his other hearts. That's why I think the heart that was killed was a water heart.

I don't want to approve something that no one is comfortable with.

[Kyo]

Now i am confused. So what are you now approving? You say jutsu but isn't the Earth Grudge Fear already ok to be used? All i did was add limits to it. And Yoshimo makes a good point about it being earth based. I also think that if the earth heart is killed, then they loose the ability to use it.

[Uchiha Kumori]

The body hardening technique was a completely different jutsu called Domu.

[Kyo]

So here is the thing. I want Keen to be able to use Puppets and Earth Grudge like Sasori and Kakuzu. However, I will not be using a billion puppets at once and won't use elements at all with the earth grudge. So I basically will just have the tendrils and any heart i get is just used as an extra life. I also still have to kill people on here to get those extra hearts. Now is that ok?

[Koga]

Well, this is a bit over my head at this point. It seems you bringing up Kakuzu's abilities in a character may end up being the last time theyre allowed to be used. As much as I love Kakuzu, I gotta say, his powers are practically the definition of overpowered. Having more than one heart in itself is, let alone the bonuses that come with those hearts, like having instant backup in a fight and added and changable elemental affinities. However, the fact that you were limiting it was why I was trying to push for you to get approved, but we really cant argue the rediculousness of the Earth Grudge's power, or, like Yoshimo said, the iffyness and vagueness the series has wrapped around it.

As for the Domu technique, it was an Earth Style technique that Kakuzu used. That means, perhaps, he had an Earth Heart originally. If his Earth Heart was killed mid-battle, maybe thats why the technique didnt suddenly fail, because he was already in the middle of using it. If you shot a giant ball of fire out of your mouth, and the millisecond it leaves your lips, a kunai is stabbed straight through your heart, I dont think thats gunna make that fire ball vanish.

[Kyo]

Yes I see what you mean but here is also something to consider. What are the odds that your attack is gonna hit just their heart? If you get their brain they are toast. If you blow up their lungs they are also in major trouble. The hearts only really act as another life if the enemy strikes your heart. I think when you look at it like that, it is not as strong. Think about if Kakashi had gotten Kakuzu through the head; DEAD.

Also, you won't have to worry about the elements OP thing with me; I have deleted that from myself. So when i get a new heart, it only acts as a second heart and cannot use jutsu and does not give me a new element. If i get a fire heart, the fire is negated and it becomes a regular heart without jutsu. But if i get another earth heart, it will allow me to use it's element. So i am not gaining a new element no matter what.

[Koga]

As true as that may be, the fact that you have five hearts basically makes the lungs work incredibly less necessary. That means you need just that much less oxygen to get the same amount of blood-moving done, so, for every heart, lungs get less and less fatal of a point. As true as the brain this is, I dont recall many people aiming for the head, ever. Its not really an easy, or pleasant, spot to hit.

So you basically get extra hearts? No elements? What about the hearts coming to life with the threads?

[Kyo]

Keen no longer needs to be approved. the matter has been taken care of. Thanks for all your help and effort. Sorry that it seems like it was all for nothing.

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